1896 replies to this topic

[RocksmySocks]

Not exactly science. He is very rational and logical, but, I don't think this is his essence. Effect of Megalomanium is different. He is so self concentrated, that he completely devalues everything and everybody around him. Science is the way to deal with the world for him. He rather hates everything.
It's another question how to help him.

Aurora: That's interesting...

DJ being a gay is just an old IDOJ joke. It's a good tradition to insinuate that he is a gay, when, in reality, he is practically sexless.

As I am Dictator Jimmy, I feel I'm a pretty decent source of insight into Dictator Jimmy.

DJ is just a very rational being, and acts very rationally if you consider how his mind works now. The megalomanium has altered his mind into not needing the things a normal person does. He has lost the desire for companionship, for example. So it would be irrational for him to spend time trying to build up any relationships in his life that actually touch him emotionally, because those emotions are things he essentially does not have anymore. The only reason for others to exist in his life, are to be useful to him.

We all want to be in control. We all want more control in our lives. If you take away the emotional side of us, the side that allows for empathy, it is easy to see how anyone could become like DJ. He has no empathy. He has a big brain, that can imagine how others might feel about something, but their emotions never really touch HIS emotional core anymore. He just registers them in his mind, to file away for future use. I wouldn't say he hates everything. Just regards everything as parts of his lab kit. Things he can use. And for those things that he can't use, or that would potentially mess up his experiments, he gets rid of.

He uses science, because it works for him. Science is a very logical process. It is strict, rational, and pretty effective. However, it is continuously advanced not because of its rationality or logic, but because of the driving force behind it all: curiosity.

Jimmy Neutron is a ridiculously curious person. That has been transformed a bit in DJ, but not at all lost. DJ still wants to learn everything he can about the universe. His drive for absolute control then uses what he learns to be a more effective dictator. He knows, rationally, that too much curiosity can get a person into trouble, and so he tempers it. However, curiosity is also the key to unlocking new questions to pursue, and so it is something he cannot take out of himself entirely, or else he would no longer be advancing his knowledge.

Keeping curiosity in check is a major issue for DJ, I feel. Besides his ego, this is the one last part of him that could really turn treacherous. It could be his downfall.

For example, "Aurora's Capture". His ego and curiosity led him unlock his prisoner from her chains, though I would argue it was his curiosity leading the charge more than his ego.

His ego said to himself "I know what she will do, there is no way she will try to escape". But...if he KNEW, then why test it? He could argue it was because he wanted the satisfaction of crushing Aurora's spirit more, to enact more control over her. However, there were other ways to do that. Other ways to crush her or control her without risking escape. Even his ego wouldn't let DJ take THAT big of a risk, when he wasn't certain of the variables.

I think it came down to curiosity. He just had to see what would really happen. He DOESN'T know everything, but he wants to. So he experiments.

Hypotheses can be disproved. Someday, even with all the intellect in the universe, DJ will come up against something that does not fit with his hypothesis. It is inevitable. And with the large-scale experiments DJ tends to run, on living beings, solar systems, galaxies...a wrong hypothesis could be a SERIOUS problem for him. That is what I predict would be his downfall.


That is, unless he somehow magically gets sprayed by an antidote to the megalomanium. *chuckles at the preposterous thought* Psh, like anyone else would be smart enough to come up with an ANTIDOTE.



As to the sexless thing...yeah. He's very emotionally cold, and he is too intelligent to allow for physical desires to ever enact any control over him.


I do love being DJ. I'm like him in very odd ways. And plus, there is the whole, ruling the universe aspect. That rocks, too.



EDIT: Though, we aren't alike in the whole...empathy...category. I have serious issues there. I get ridiculously empathetic for almost anything. Literally. Anything. It's actually really bad, because it has caused problems for me repeatedly. I often wish I WASN'T this empathetic, because I really don't think it is normal and it tends to mess up things. Maybe just a drop of megalomanium would be good for me.

[Flank]

I am afraid, that DJ left you and you are missing the point. DJ has no curiosity. He doesn't explore things. At least in a way you do. Would any person just because of scientifical reasons destroy planets on regular basis and seek complete control over everything? It makes no sense. Since I kinda know DJ's soul, I'm answering. He has emotions. Just, those are emotions of a completely destroied soul. You don't feel anything what he feels. If he simply lost emotions, he'd be as a robot without commands, he wouldn't want to do anything. With the long term effect of Megalomanium, DJ become so completely egocentric, that the whole world lost its meaning for him. He doesn't love even himself. But, since he exists and has enormous intellect, the only thing that is left in his soul is a desire to destroy everything. He is spiritually dead and he gets rid of life as of something he can't stand.

[RocksmySocks]

DJ is all about curiosity. He is looking for utter control, not utter destruction. He destroys worlds to make a point about how in control he is, not just because he enjoys blowing stuff up.

He doesn't experiment to be cruel. His experiments just end up cruel because he has no ethics left. His only rule is to inflate his power. One way to do that is to learn everything there is to know. Without curiosity, he would never have that sort of power. I am sure most of his experiments began with, "I wonder...". Whether destruction was a result or not, is not a major concern to DJ.

Not saying he can't be cruel. His cruelty to those he once cared for demonstrates that he isn't completely devoid of emotion. But overall, his goal in life is not to make EVERYONE suffer. Just to make everyone know that he, unquestionably, is supreme and is in control of everything everywhere. Ruling through fear is very effective.

[Flank]

Once again, believe me or not, DJ has no curiosity. He is destruction himself. Please, there are more effective ways to control worlds with an intellect like his, than destroying them.

The first thing that he says to Aurora is what he is all about.

His words came out in a whisper. "I’m going to make you suffer."

[RocksmySocks]

Well, that's why I mentioned that his cruelty to his friends is proof that he is not completely devoid of emotion. Jimmy is deep inside him, and his anger at Cindy for turning him into this monster comes out as cold revenge on DJ's part.

He does treat Aurora as an experiment, though. He wants to see how far he can push her. In his opinion, she is the only opponent remotely worth noticing, and thus must be deciphered and studied. In case someday, something bigger comes along.

The destruction of worlds is to establish is control over the whole galaxy and universe. It is VERY effective. He doesn't care if he controls one more measly planet. Just like people, to him, planets are expendable to further his own increase in power. If he was only out to destroy, I am pretty dang sure he could have wreaked a LOT more havoc in ten years than he already has. I mean...he's DJ. Give him some credit, here. B)

[Flank]

There is Jimmy deeply inside, but, he is too deeply and doesn't control much.

There is no revenge, because he doesn't regret it. A human girl is really nothing to study for DJ, he has all the Galaxy for his studies. Plus, making sufer someone isn't much of a study. He predicts and controls every her step.

The destruction has some efficiency. But, when you take ultimate control, there is nothing to study because you in that way destroy the social system. To have power over not completely oppressed worlds may benefit studies. But, he seeks only to take control and make people suffer. And this drive to ultimate control is caused only by a desire to destroy and make everyone suffer.

He is more than creepy.

[RocksmySocks]

Hmm. That's an interesting take on it, Flank. I still feel that DJ's motivation is control rather than destruction, though. Just my view. Mara is the ultimate authority, obviously.

And yeah, you're right, Pigquet. He has many reasons to want to hurt Aurora and make her suffer. Getting rid of her as a threat would be easy for him to do, but he is not done making her suffer and also not done studying her and her moves against him. (*cough*...not in that way...)

[Flank]

And yes, and no. He does seek control, to get an possess everything. But, in a long time period, it leads to complete devaluation of all the things, while he himself looses any point to live, or love. Thus, destruction is all what is left for him to do in life because he is incompatible with any life.

Cindy-Aurora has her own independent personality and strong free will. That what makes a person and that what really hates DJ, who hates life. FC got along with DJ so well because he doesn't show any will in front of the dictator and became just a puppet. DJ just uses him.

Not in that way? GAY!

[CraazyOne]

Hmmm....I think I'm with Katie. DJ is out for control more than destruction, and because he is so cold, he uses destruction as a tool to control more or study more. He's still kinda like Jimmy, and Jimmy was very curious. Give Jimmy a strong desire to control and no conscience or compassion to limit him and...yeah. Curiosity with no limits. Freaky thought. I mean, F. Sheen is TOTALLY his experiment, obviously... There's some curiosity there. He didn't just kill FS when he couldn't use him to help him control or destroy as he did FC.





~Rachel~

[Flank]

It goes beiond it. The ultimate desire and the ultimate control lead to ultimate destruction. It's more complicated and not easy to explain.

[CraazyOne]

Well, yeah. He controls through fear, which leads to destruction. He also has an unbounded curiosity, which leads to more destruction. And finally, if there really IS any emotion connected to his desire to make Aurora suffer, it is a desire for revenge that is also super destructive.

I can't say he's devoid of all curiosity. Katie made such good points, and we have to remember DJ still is Jimmy, just with a personality distorted by heartless power-lust.

Anyway, maybe we can have Mara explain him for us, since she DID "create" him... XD




~Rachel~

[Flank]

It's his soul is destroyed, therefor he has no curiosity, he isn't the same personality.

One more thing that I wanted to add about Cindy. There is no any desire to revenge. Cindy-Aurora for DJ is a personal symbol of love, life and another person who could be closest to him. He hates it most of all, since his soul is destroyed by Megalomanium. His goal is not just kill her, but, to make that girl to suffer as much as possible, turning her life into heck.

I hope Mara will find time to explain it.

[RocksmySocks]

In my understanding of megalomanium, it doesn't destroy one's soul...it just shoves it to one side so as to further your ability to rise to power through whatever means necessary. Jimmy is still inside DJ. Frankly, Jimmy IS DJ. It's not even really a question of them being two different people.

It's like...inside each of us, in a three year-old version of each of us. Boy were we different people when we were three! But the things that happened to us at age three still played a role in shaping who we became, and sometimes when serious crap happens in our lives, we can revert to an earlier nature. We can act "immature". Three year-old Katie is still a part of me, she IS me. I've just added a lot onto her and managed to quash some of the parts of her that are no longer good for me to use (like throwing temper tantrums and refusing to eat popcorn), but that doesn't mean those parts magically disappear.

So, in the same way, Jimmy is part of DJ. DJ has managed to hide and lock up much of his earlier, 11 year-old nature. But he can't get rid of it. It is part of who he is. He hasn't deleted Jimmy. He isn't an entirely new person. Even if he would like to argue that he is.

As for his feelings toward Aurora...I stand by my earlier reasoning. He for one thing, is experimenting with her. Coldly and logically. And additionally, he is making her suffer. He has emotions still acting within him that he hasn't been able to squish away to one side as well as he would like to. Cindy always brought out the strongest emotions in Jimmy, and that's why Aurora can break through DJ's emotional shield. Of course, being DJ, he only knows how to express his emotions negatively, hence the pain and suffering he wishes to cause Aurora.

So DJ is not a completely different person. He IS Jimmy. And a big part of why that is, I feel, is his curiosity. Even though the other aspects of his earlier self are things he can afford (and should afford) to try and hide away, he would not be where he is today without curiosity. And he knows that.

And again, I don't think DJ is a destroyed man.

If you want to see a destroyed man, we'll probably get our chance once the antidote is administered and Jimmy comes back out.

I don't even like thinking about what that will be like for him.

[Flank]

First we need Mara to explain the things at last.

Only being in such state can show what it's really like. His personality is destroyed in the explained way (may be just not 100%, but very near it) and he is deprived of any normal human life. So, nothing of old Jimmy acts here. Would he hurt his friends like that?


There is another one issue. Due to extreme Western individualism, you percieve any big power, or intellect (see Sheen's brain) as something destructive and dangerous for the others. It's strange for a person with another culture. Power, or intellect does not necessary are evil. They can be used by a person with love. A very young, or smart person does not have to be evil and destructive to the others. That's nonsense for me.

[CraazyOne]

In my understanding of megalomanium, it doesn't destroy one's soul...it just shoves it to one side so as to further your ability to rise to power through whatever means necessary. Jimmy is still inside DJ. Frankly, Jimmy IS DJ. It's not even really a question of them being two different people.

It's like...inside each of us, in a three year-old version of each of us. Boy were we different people when we were three! But the things that happened to us at age three still played a role in shaping who we became, and sometimes when serious crap happens in our lives, we can revert to an earlier nature. We can act "immature". Three year-old Katie is still a part of me, she IS me. I've just added a lot onto her and managed to quash some of the parts of her that are no longer good for me to use (like throwing temper tantrums and refusing to eat popcorn), but that doesn't mean those parts magically disappear.

So, in the same way, Jimmy is part of DJ. DJ has managed to hide and lock up much of his earlier, 11 year-old nature. But he can't get rid of it. It is part of who he is. He hasn't deleted Jimmy. He isn't an entirely new person. Even if he would like to argue that he is.

As for his feelings toward Aurora...I stand by my earlier reasoning. He for one thing, is experimenting with her. Coldly and logically. And additionally, he is making her suffer. He has emotions still acting within him that he hasn't been able to squish away to one side as well as he would like to. Cindy always brought out the strongest emotions in Jimmy, and that's why Aurora can break through DJ's emotional shield. Of course, being DJ, he only knows how to express his emotions negatively, hence the pain and suffering he wishes to cause Aurora.

So DJ is not a completely different person. He IS Jimmy. And a big part of why that is, I feel, is his curiosity. Even though the other aspects of his earlier self are things he can afford (and should afford) to try and hide away, he would not be where he is today without curiosity. And he knows that.

And again, I don't think DJ is a destroyed man.

If you want to see a destroyed man, we'll probably get our chance once the antidote is administered and Jimmy comes back out.

I don't even like thinking about what that will be like for him.

Excellent points.

There is another one issue. Due to extreme Western individualism, you percieve any big power, or intellect (see Sheen's brain) as something destructive and dangerous for the others. It's strange for a person with another culture. Power, or intellect does not necessary are evil. They can be used by a person with love. A very young, or smart person does not have to be evil and destructive to the others. That's nonsense for me.

I'm not sure how this is relevant to the topic of DJ's personality. He is unquestionably using his power for evil. Megalomanium does that. End of story.



~Rachel~

[RocksmySocks]

There is another one issue. Due to extreme Western individualism, you percieve any big power, or intellect (see Sheen's brain) as something destructive and dangerous for the others. It's strange for a person with another culture. Power, or intellect does not necessary are evil. They can be used by a person with love. A very young, or smart person does not have to be evil and destructive to the others. That's nonsense for me.

Well, I don't really think power or intelligence have to be evil. Uh...at all.

But Jimmy didn't just become "leader"...he became power HUNGRY. I do see being power hungry as a bad quality.

And obviously he was super intelligent before the megalomanium, as well. But wasn't evil then. It's just when you combine power hunger with the ability to outsmart anyone who gets in your way...that's when it becomes dangerous.

Megalomanium makes a person seek control without ethics. Without love. Of course you can rule effectively with love. But that's not the type of ruling that the megalomanium has forced Jimmy to become obsessed with.

[CraazyOne]

Well, I don't really think power or intelligence have to be evil. Uh...at all.

Yeah, we didn't say it all had to be evil. I will say that absolute power can corrupt absolutely, because it's in human nature to desire power and control. It's possible that humans can use power for evil, making power a very dangerous thing to give out to any one person. But not all rulers have been evil. The best way to deal with power is to balance it, to keep human nature in check. Just as a precaution. Power can be a dangerous thing, obviously. But it does not follow that everyone who is given power will abuse it. It's very possible, but not inevitable.

DJ's case is an extreme one. He's not himself. Sometimes he seems to be hardly human. Imagine a monster controlling the universe. Um....yeah.

Anyway, once again, I have to say this is off topic. DJ is a very different case, and TOSOT is a fictional story. And fictional stories do not always reflect real-life scenarios accurately...

I will take this moment to say, though, that I don't think anyone should ever be given control of an entire planet, let alone the whole universe. :lol: Let's leave that to God. :D



~Rachel~

[Flank]

Katie said that DJ is in some way like very young Jimmy now.

Rach, how does exactly Megalomanium affect a person?

Katie, Jimmy become hungry for evil destructive power to posess everything for himself. You as well can use power to benefit the others. But, Megalomanium makes a person self concentrated. After some time and living with it, he lost his personality, becoming a machine of destruction. Everything is lost for him, only he left for himself. But, there is only nothingness and hate are left in his soul. That's why he acts that way and he's actions can not be explained as normal people's actions.

Too bad Mara is so busy. But, you should better don't disturb Mara with this question much, it would be too aggravating for her.

[CraazyOne]

Katie said that DJ is in some way like very young Jimmy now.

Rach, how does exactly Megalomanium affect a person?

No, Katie didn't say that at all; I think you missed her point. She meant that DJ is NOT a completely different person. His personality may have been slightly altered because of the Megalomanium, but he is still JIMMY. It cannot completely steal away who he is, deep down inside. Because, ultimately, if an antidote were to be given to him, he would become Jimmy once again. A very traumatized Jimmy, but Jimmy nonetheless...proving Jimmy was always there, somewhere deep down and almost entirely hidden away.

Megalomanium, according to The Tomorrow Boys, makes someone mad with power. Obviously, they are nearly completely controlled by it. The aspects of their personality are distorted in their lust for power. Libby still loved music, but she was power-hungry and cold-hearted toward others in that lust for power. Hence Jimmy is still in love with science and still experiments to satisfy his curiosity, but now with virtually no moral boundaries, because those are consumed in his lust for power.



~Rachel~

[RocksmySocks]

Katie said that DJ is in some way like very young Jimmy now.

Rach, how does exactly Megalomanium affect a person?

Katie, Jimmy become hungry for evil destructive power to posess everything for himself. You as well can use power to benefit the others. But, Megalomanium makes a person self concentrated. After some time and living with it, he lost his personality, becoming a machine of destruction. Everything is lost for him, only he left for himself. But, there is only nothingness and hate are left in his soul. That's why he acts that way and he's actions can not be explained as normal people's actions.

Too bad Mara is so busy. But, you should better don't disturb Mara with this question much, it would be too aggravating for her.

Right. Jimmy definitely became self-concentrated. But I don't think "hate" is quite the right way to describe it. I think that's where I differ from your opinion. His actions aren't based off of hate...just based off of a cold calculative way to be ruler over all. Not a benevolent ruler, but a ruler that people would be far too terrified to challenge. Megalomanium makes you take the quick and dirty path to control, not the nicer way.

Lol, and I don't really think Mara will mind responding to this debate once she reads it. heck, if I could write a story that would spawn this sort of discussion, I'd be thrilled!